<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Home heating</title>
	<atom:link href="http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/</link>
	<description>Every day brings ????</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: gaberoo</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-318</link>
		<dc:creator>gaberoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-318</guid>
		<description>She may have; I'll have to call her and ask. I'm sure he'll have good ideas. The question will be how expensive they will turn out to be (big reforms tend to cost big bucks), but maybe there are smaller things that can be done inexpensively to ameliorate the situation (as with many Uruguayan homes this one's main problems are cold walls due to lack of any type of insulation, moisture/humidity problems, and leaky windows/doors).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She may have; I&#8217;ll have to call her and ask. I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;ll have good ideas. The question will be how expensive they will turn out to be (big reforms tend to cost big bucks), but maybe there are smaller things that can be done inexpensively to ameliorate the situation (as with many Uruguayan homes this one&#8217;s main problems are cold walls due to lack of any type of insulation, moisture/humidity problems, and leaky windows/doors).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: urufish</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>urufish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-311</guid>
		<description>Gonzalo was at my house yesterday doing some work and he mentioned someone contacted him about this.  He's bright and articulate.  I hope he gives her good ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gonzalo was at my house yesterday doing some work and he mentioned someone contacted him about this.  He&#8217;s bright and articulate.  I hope he gives her good ideas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gaberoo</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>gaberoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-308</guid>
		<description>Sorry Fish for having asked about the price of sheetrock in the Southron blog when you had posted this info here(I hadn't read this post till now). 
Aside from these building matters being inherently interesting to me, practical concerns are trying to decide whether to(and how to) reform my mother's house to make winters more bearable or, alternatively, if she should just sell (or rent) and buy somewhere else (or build, but this prospect isn't very practical for several reasons). 
She's just about finished with the apartment (now comes the fun of trying to rent it!) so within a short time she should be contacting Gonzalo for assessments on how to renovate the house to make it more winter-friendly. 
That was one difficult renovation job having to work around so many original, but less than optimally-energy efficient windows and doors!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Fish for having asked about the price of sheetrock in the Southron blog when you had posted this info here(I hadn&#8217;t read this post till now).<br />
Aside from these building matters being inherently interesting to me, practical concerns are trying to decide whether to(and how to) reform my mother&#8217;s house to make winters more bearable or, alternatively, if she should just sell (or rent) and buy somewhere else (or build, but this prospect isn&#8217;t very practical for several reasons).<br />
She&#8217;s just about finished with the apartment (now comes the fun of trying to rent it!) so within a short time she should be contacting Gonzalo for assessments on how to renovate the house to make it more winter-friendly.<br />
That was one difficult renovation job having to work around so many original, but less than optimally-energy efficient windows and doors!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Heating in Uruguay - Things to Consider</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Heating in Uruguay - Things to Consider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 00:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-255</guid>
		<description>[...] has already been covered very competently by several expat bloggers living in Montevideo; see here, and here for example. So why do I feel the urge to write about this subject again? Because despite [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has already been covered very competently by several expat bloggers living in Montevideo; see here, and here for example. So why do I feel the urge to write about this subject again? Because despite [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: urufish</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>urufish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 01:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-246</guid>
		<description>I went to our doctor's office today.  He's in an unheated apartment building.  He's using a big, high capacity electric heater in the reception and smaller units in his office and it's fine.  On the way down in the elevator, we stopped to let someone get in.  There was an apartment right in front of the elvator and there was a woman there, talking to someone in the hallway.  The woman was wearing a bulky ski jacket, with a huge scarf wrapped around her neck and a big, wool toque on her head.  She looked exactly like a Winnipeger (or Michiganan/Minnesotan) mid December, before they put the scarf over their nose/mouth, (by January, it's over the nose/mouth and it's covered in ice). 

I'm sure this woman was quite comfortable.  But that's my point.  This isn't the way an American or Canadian is used to dressing at home in the winter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to our doctor&#8217;s office today.  He&#8217;s in an unheated apartment building.  He&#8217;s using a big, high capacity electric heater in the reception and smaller units in his office and it&#8217;s fine.  On the way down in the elevator, we stopped to let someone get in.  There was an apartment right in front of the elvator and there was a woman there, talking to someone in the hallway.  The woman was wearing a bulky ski jacket, with a huge scarf wrapped around her neck and a big, wool toque on her head.  She looked exactly like a Winnipeger (or Michiganan/Minnesotan) mid December, before they put the scarf over their nose/mouth, (by January, it&#8217;s over the nose/mouth and it&#8217;s covered in ice). </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure this woman was quite comfortable.  But that&#8217;s my point.  This isn&#8217;t the way an American or Canadian is used to dressing at home in the winter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: urufish</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>urufish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-218</guid>
		<description>I'll pass your question on to the architect Gaberoo.  His opinion will have more data behind it than mine.
All I can tell you is that I have gutted two houses since I've been here and I never went there.  
Let me tell you my thoughts if I had to do this house over again, with insulation.
Roof.  I'm not a residential flat roof guy, but I have built one in my building days.  It was long ago but if memory serves me correctly, we did nothing particularly unusual with the flat roof.  I left it up to the roofers.  I believe they laid down fiberboard, not much R factor there, and then something else, also not much R.  Then they laid over top of that the standard tar waterproofing.  The insulation was placed inside, under the structure.  The roof was too big for 2x10's so we used trusses.  Under the trusses, we stapled plastic sheets and then screw up drywall (sheetrock).  We went into the hatches and blew fiberglass, to get a high R value. 

This is idential to the way we did pitched roofs.  Except there, we work with 2x6 or 2x8's... (was long ago).  Flat or pitched, both are ventilated.

Here, we're dealing with a concrete roof.  We have to strip off everything to bare concrete, then put in styrofoam to get the R value you want.  You dont want the whole roof flat styrofoam, so you build parapet walls in sections on the roof and place the styrofoam up to about 2cm from the top.  Then you cover the whole thing with membrane.. silver on the topside, tar on the downside.  You can paint that over with waterproof, UV resistant paint or put on patio stones.  That's how you would insulate a flat roof here.
In my case, we have 3 flat roofs, and 2 terraces that sit atop rooms.  The roofs were all recently membraned, so we needed to rip out those 2 roofs, adding costs that weren't required.  
The terraces were already screwed and we had to strip them down anyway.  To raise that floor 4 to 7 cm to lay in the styrofoam would have meant raising the doors, which either means shortening their height, (for pygmies) or smashing out the top of the door and raising it up.  That means rebuilding the 80 year old door frames and getting a masonry artist to rebuild the porticos and carve or mould plaster headers.  

The house is not a perfect rectangle.  There are walls that jut in and out.  To insulate those, would mean strapping all the walls...  using drywall(sheetrock).  Sheetrock is expensive in Uruguay...  Trades that work with it aren't very good with seams.  I dont know what cost it would add, but it would be a lot.  But that isn't the real problem.  When you renovate an old stately house, you have old stately wood windows that were built by craftman.  You have to move them around to fit the new thicker wall.  Or they'll be sunk into the wall.  Not terribly pleasing to the eye.  

Speaking of the windows and doors, there's your biggest single source of heat loss.  Old, stately, beautiful windows are loose fitting.  Glass is not thermalpane.  Most of my house is french windows.. small squares... beveled on top of that.  An important reason for buying this house was the woodwork and those windows.  The only thing I could do was put up insulated cortinas (rollups).  

If I had to take a wild guess, it would have added at least USD$30K to USD$40K to do the ceilings and walls.  Let's say you could reproduce those windows, another USD$15K.  

To build a house from scratch, is another story altogether.  Then any architect could give you a price difference, probably no more than USD$20K=USD$30K extra for a 300m house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll pass your question on to the architect Gaberoo.  His opinion will have more data behind it than mine.<br />
All I can tell you is that I have gutted two houses since I&#8217;ve been here and I never went there.<br />
Let me tell you my thoughts if I had to do this house over again, with insulation.<br />
Roof.  I&#8217;m not a residential flat roof guy, but I have built one in my building days.  It was long ago but if memory serves me correctly, we did nothing particularly unusual with the flat roof.  I left it up to the roofers.  I believe they laid down fiberboard, not much R factor there, and then something else, also not much R.  Then they laid over top of that the standard tar waterproofing.  The insulation was placed inside, under the structure.  The roof was too big for 2&#215;10&#8217;s so we used trusses.  Under the trusses, we stapled plastic sheets and then screw up drywall (sheetrock).  We went into the hatches and blew fiberglass, to get a high R value. </p>
<p>This is idential to the way we did pitched roofs.  Except there, we work with 2&#215;6 or 2&#215;8&#8217;s&#8230; (was long ago).  Flat or pitched, both are ventilated.</p>
<p>Here, we&#8217;re dealing with a concrete roof.  We have to strip off everything to bare concrete, then put in styrofoam to get the R value you want.  You dont want the whole roof flat styrofoam, so you build parapet walls in sections on the roof and place the styrofoam up to about 2cm from the top.  Then you cover the whole thing with membrane.. silver on the topside, tar on the downside.  You can paint that over with waterproof, UV resistant paint or put on patio stones.  That&#8217;s how you would insulate a flat roof here.<br />
In my case, we have 3 flat roofs, and 2 terraces that sit atop rooms.  The roofs were all recently membraned, so we needed to rip out those 2 roofs, adding costs that weren&#8217;t required.<br />
The terraces were already screwed and we had to strip them down anyway.  To raise that floor 4 to 7 cm to lay in the styrofoam would have meant raising the doors, which either means shortening their height, (for pygmies) or smashing out the top of the door and raising it up.  That means rebuilding the 80 year old door frames and getting a masonry artist to rebuild the porticos and carve or mould plaster headers.  </p>
<p>The house is not a perfect rectangle.  There are walls that jut in and out.  To insulate those, would mean strapping all the walls&#8230;  using drywall(sheetrock).  Sheetrock is expensive in Uruguay&#8230;  Trades that work with it aren&#8217;t very good with seams.  I dont know what cost it would add, but it would be a lot.  But that isn&#8217;t the real problem.  When you renovate an old stately house, you have old stately wood windows that were built by craftman.  You have to move them around to fit the new thicker wall.  Or they&#8217;ll be sunk into the wall.  Not terribly pleasing to the eye.  </p>
<p>Speaking of the windows and doors, there&#8217;s your biggest single source of heat loss.  Old, stately, beautiful windows are loose fitting.  Glass is not thermalpane.  Most of my house is french windows.. small squares&#8230; beveled on top of that.  An important reason for buying this house was the woodwork and those windows.  The only thing I could do was put up insulated cortinas (rollups).  </p>
<p>If I had to take a wild guess, it would have added at least USD$30K to USD$40K to do the ceilings and walls.  Let&#8217;s say you could reproduce those windows, another USD$15K.  </p>
<p>To build a house from scratch, is another story altogether.  Then any architect could give you a price difference, probably no more than USD$20K=USD$30K extra for a 300m house.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gaberoo</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>gaberoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-216</guid>
		<description>It's still a mystery (sort of) why houses in Uruguay haven't been insulated (I'm not sure how available insulation is and I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap--probably main reason why houses aren't insulated in Uruguay to begin with--but for those who have the money, isn't it a whole lot more comfortable?). 
Surely it's more cost-effective to bundle up inside the house than to insulate it, yet...how darned expensive could this be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s still a mystery (sort of) why houses in Uruguay haven&#8217;t been insulated (I&#8217;m not sure how available insulation is and I&#8217;m sure it wouldn&#8217;t be cheap&#8211;probably main reason why houses aren&#8217;t insulated in Uruguay to begin with&#8211;but for those who have the money, isn&#8217;t it a whole lot more comfortable?).<br />
Surely it&#8217;s more cost-effective to bundle up inside the house than to insulate it, yet&#8230;how darned expensive could this be?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: urufish</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>urufish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-209</guid>
		<description>Ahhhh.. the shower is where the rubber meets the road in these houses.  The master bathroom is large by Uruguayan standards.  The tub area is quite a ways away from the main radiator in the room.  The architect, knowing me, put a radiator on the wall at the far end of the tub.  He figured we'd put in a shower enclosure, cutting off the shower from the rest of the room.
That would keep the shower warm.
Wrong assumption.
My wife decided to put in a glass divider, to prevent water from spraying out on the floor, but leaving the 70% of the shower open to the room.  There are 2 outside walls with 3 windows (you know how airtight 80 year old Uruguayan windows are).  The floor is on concrete slab.  The ceiling is the 2nd floor terrace.  Lots of heat loss.  Unless you stand right under the hot water, you're cold...  I've taken to showering in the basement during the winter.  Although it's not heated, the shower is totally enclosed.  Turn on the hot water and within 30 seconds, it's like a steam bath.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhhh.. the shower is where the rubber meets the road in these houses.  The master bathroom is large by Uruguayan standards.  The tub area is quite a ways away from the main radiator in the room.  The architect, knowing me, put a radiator on the wall at the far end of the tub.  He figured we&#8217;d put in a shower enclosure, cutting off the shower from the rest of the room.<br />
That would keep the shower warm.<br />
Wrong assumption.<br />
My wife decided to put in a glass divider, to prevent water from spraying out on the floor, but leaving the 70% of the shower open to the room.  There are 2 outside walls with 3 windows (you know how airtight 80 year old Uruguayan windows are).  The floor is on concrete slab.  The ceiling is the 2nd floor terrace.  Lots of heat loss.  Unless you stand right under the hot water, you&#8217;re cold&#8230;  I&#8217;ve taken to showering in the basement during the winter.  Although it&#8217;s not heated, the shower is totally enclosed.  Turn on the hot water and within 30 seconds, it&#8217;s like a steam bath.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brazzie</title>
		<link>http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>Brazzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urufish.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/home-heating/#comment-208</guid>
		<description>Irv, thanks for the treatise on heating. Very informative.

My wife is from Wisconsin and says to this day that she was never so cold in her life as when she lived in southern Brazil. There, most people use electric spot-heaters. And as you correctly pointed out, they are horribly uncomfortable.

We can still remember waking up and being able to sometimes see our own breath while still in bed. In order to take a shower, you had to undress in the bathroom which was  often around 6 C (40 F). Enough to make a man out of you.

As an engineer, I agree with your assessment of the heating issues and the pro and cons of the main alternatives.

For us, I think we will stick to central losa. One more plus for apartments versus houses.  Winters feel very long if you have to dress like an astronaut inside your own home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irv, thanks for the treatise on heating. Very informative.</p>
<p>My wife is from Wisconsin and says to this day that she was never so cold in her life as when she lived in southern Brazil. There, most people use electric spot-heaters. And as you correctly pointed out, they are horribly uncomfortable.</p>
<p>We can still remember waking up and being able to sometimes see our own breath while still in bed. In order to take a shower, you had to undress in the bathroom which was  often around 6 C (40 F). Enough to make a man out of you.</p>
<p>As an engineer, I agree with your assessment of the heating issues and the pro and cons of the main alternatives.</p>
<p>For us, I think we will stick to central losa. One more plus for apartments versus houses.  Winters feel very long if you have to dress like an astronaut inside your own home.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
